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Thursday, August 18, 2005

Postmodern or Grasping at Straws

I've been neck deep in philosophy of late, getting to know some of the most twisted minds of the last two hundred years. Stephen Hicks, Professor of Philosophy at Rockford College, Illinois (named, I think, after the cheekiest of all TV private investigators, Jim Rockford), wrote a book called Explaining Postmodernism: Skepticism and Socialism from Rousseau to Foucault. As the title suggests, the author traces postmodernism (that is, intellectual douchebaggery) from its departure from modernist thought to the present. It's highly informative, with an unexpected twist or two, but ultimately I found it to be much ado about nothing.

First a twist - here's a quiz. True or False: the nuttiest of today's lefty academics are ideologically derived from Immanuel Kant. Most (including myself as recently as a week ago) would respond with a resounding NO. Kant, after all, is heralded as one of the key Enlightenment thinkers, right? Right...and wrong. Although Kant did a lot for reason in terms of advocating its usefulness in establishing logical relationships between entities, he dealt it a devastating blow in saying that reason could never get us in touch with reality.

The Kantian view is that reality, at least what we think of as reality, is something fabricated entirely by our minds. He was enough of a realist to believe that there is some kind of absolute truth, but he believed that our minds are simply incapable of getting anywhere near it. Instead, we create reality according the constructs and limitations of our grey matter. Space and time do not really exist; we create them. Reading this did not shock me - I've known for a long time that Kant saw limits to reason, and that he, along with David Hume, officially abandoned it by the end of their lives. However, I was shocked to learn that guys like Hegel, Shopenhauer, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, and Heidegger all used Kantian anti-reason as a jumping off point for their ravings. Furthermore, that those ravings eventually became the basis for American (and much of European) leftist thinking.

Perhaps I should make a point here. Hicks' objective, I assume (he never quite says), is to help us understand what informs the mindset of so many of the wackos in our midst, especially those who are pervasive in academia. Ostensibly, once we get this, we can construct arguments (or at least responses) that will be more satisfying than being frozen like a deer in headlights at the sheer lunacy of what comes out of their mouths. On this, I think he's reaching, but only because this never happens to me, and because he's giving most liberals far too much credit. First a little more background - I'll lay out postmodernism's main tenets and then tie them to contemporary liberal perspectives. (To be clear, my use of the term 'liberal' is meant to refer to a modern liberal, like say Barbara Boxer, not a classical liberal, like say Milton Friedman.)

1. In terms of metaphysics (that is, what is reality?), the postmodernist is strictly anti-realist, which is to say that there is no such thing. Everything is a construct of the human mind. Somehow, these crazies have concluded that we live in The Matrix, but without the Matrix.

The modern liberal embraces this wholeheartedly. They refuse to deal in fact and reality. To them, humanity can be perfected and all men are good, if only the systems that organize them were right.

2. In terms of epistemology (that is, how do we know what we know?), the postmodernist believes in social subjectivism, which is to say it's all good. Whatever and however you want to come by knowledge is just fine, since you're creating reality in your head anyway.

Here are the seeds of multiculturalism. If any way of approaching the world is as good as any other, then no culture is better than any other. Hence, the PCification of society.

3. In terms of human nature, the postmodernist believes we are the results of social construction, which is to say that our social and cultural environment creates whatever nature we may have.

Again, this is the liberal's battlecry against exploitative capitalism, gender socialization, racism, blah, blah, blah.

4. In terms of ethics (that is, who or what is the arbiter of right and wrong?), the postmodernist is a collectivist, which is to say that the individual is always secondary to the group, which can be defined by race, nationality, sex, or religion.

Liberals think in terms of groups and abhor those who put the needs and desires of individuals ahead of them.

5. In terms of politics and economics, the postmodernist is a socialist, which is to say dumbass.

We can get at this one indirectly by noticing that our society has become more and more socialist over the centuries since 1776, and it has been the liberals, almost exclusively, who have made it so. We can also get at it directly by noting that most lefty causes are joined by communist and socialist groups right alongside the likes George Soros and Michael Moore. (Anyone checked out Camp Casey lately?)

So there you have it, the breakdown of the postmodernist mentality and its modern liberal cousin. One might wonder how it is that I disagree with Hicks when I seem to have validated his primary thesis. Fair enough. Here's the deal - Hicks' main argument is that people today who exhibit these thought processes are direct cognitive descendents of the aforementioned philosophers. Though he focuses on four contemporary and well-known postmodernists (Derrida, Rorty, Foucault, and Lyotard), the implication is that most leftists have this philosophical pedigree coursing through their veins. This is where we part ways.

There is a thread that runs all the way from Immanueal Kant to Ted Kennedy, and it isn't the same philosophical contemplation and subsequent conclusion. It is very simple - none of these people had or have the stomach for reality. It truly is that simple. We don't need to put on our propeller hats and get down and dirty with Kierkegaard to recognize that, across the board, from postmodernist philosopher to modern-day politician, the mindset is the same - if reality doesn't look like I want it to, I will deny its existence.

Indeed, in the second preface to Kant's, Critique of Pure Reason, he asserts, "I have therefore found it necessary to deny knowledge in order to make room for faith." Boom! There you have it - liberalism in a nutshell. (Yes, I realize that libs aren't heavy into Jesus. I'm talking about the notion of abandoning reality for something you like more.) There are interesting things that flow from this. For starters, if there is no reality and all knowledge is subjective, then there is no such thing as truth. That's right. So while we pound our fists on the table about facts and honesty, the anti-realist liberal is calculating truth (or what we think of as truth) as a matter of convenience.

You see, as long as realists are in power, they will bash anti-realists over the head with it, and though there really is no reality, getting bashed over the head with faux-reality still doesn't feel good. Sooo...the answer is to snatch power from the hands of realists, and rhetoric is the most powerful tool for doing so. You getting the picture here? I see folks, usually conservatives, getting so wound up over the dishonesty of liberals, but what they fail to realize is that the libs are playing a completely different game. It's not about being right (there's no such thing, remember); it's about power. Plain and simple.

The problem is that too many people, though they most assuredly do not know it, buy into Kant's (or Hegel's, to be precise) ideas about reality - namely, that it doesn't really exist. I have often wondered what Kant would have said if Bill and Ted had brought him back instead of Sigmund Freud. Given that science has advanced to the point that we can be pretty darned sure about reality until we get down to the quantum level, I wonder if Kant would have been able to find middle ground in his thinking. To him, it was either that the real world gives its impression to the human mind or the mind gives its impression to the real world. When faced with those choices, it's easy to see how he concluded as he did. In any case, I am a realist, so I acknowledge that we have what we have - some folks deal in reality, and some don't. Unlike Stephen Hicks, I don't believe that most of those who don't have any philosophical basis for their approach. I think, in the immortal spirit of Nicholson's character in, A Few Good Men, they just can't handle the truth. They're not postmodern, they're just grasping at straws.

BTW - I'm not back, I'm still on hiatus. Really - don't get your hopes up. This one just couldn't wait.

12 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for coming out of hiatus to post that description of postmodernism, especially its philosophical roots and the assumption at the heart of it.

Just as the 1930s offered people a false dichotomy between fascism and communism - two brands of collectivism - so this decade is offering us the false dichotomy between postmodernism (blue states; what Ken Wilber calls the Mean Green Meme) and a premodern meme based on faith, force, rules, and tradition. (Red states). i.e. two brands of nonreason.

All the morality I was ever able to live by came from people of a rational mindset, many of them (like Robert Heinlein), science fiction writers. This is the heritage of the Enlightenment.

I think you and David Brin could trade ideas to the mutual profit of you and your readers and his; you're fighting the same battles. Fight on!

Pat

8/19/2005 01:09:00 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

congratulations, first you invented evolutionary psychology 30 years late, now youve invented ayn rands objectivism 50 years late


you are really on the cutting edge there

8/20/2005 04:31:00 PM

 
Blogger Chris Wilson said...

"congratulations, first you invented evolutionary psychology 30 years late, now youve invented ayn rands objectivism 50 years late


you are really on the cutting edge there"

Quite right. In the face of my invention of the internet and the creation of the first blogsite, those innovations seem trivial.

May I suggest you switch your reading comprehension setting to the 'on' position from now on?

Pat, I think the reason sci-fi genre does such a good job with rationality is because it creates an alternate physical reality and then develops a story that works within those confines. Reason provides the plausibility because if what happens is illogical, the whole endeavor falls apart. Real life, on the other hand, does not, or at least not so decisively.

Okay, Alice, allow me to extend my statement.

"To them, humanity can be perfected and all men are good, if only the systems that organize them were right, and capitalism most definitely is not."

I think it's incorrect to suggest that Locke embraced any version of a blank slate human mind. He was less focused on what kind of system would make for the best human as he was on the philosophical implications of all humans being created with equal rights. His was a cause of right versus wrong.

It was Adam Smith who took the Enlightenment discussion to the level of finding an economic system that was compatible with some notion of human nature. His was a cause of economic practicality.

"How do we know that free markets work, because they have never actually been tried?"

Because markets that are more free than not free work better than markets that are less free than free. Simple.

This is not a dichotomy; it's a continuum. On one end, you have perfect communism, and on the other, you have perfect capitalism. Even if neither of the extremes have ever been fully realized, it is still quite clear that the closer you get to the capitalism side, the more overall prosperity is enjoyed by the population in question. And this is not some big mystery. The individual ownership of the means of production and the right of property owners to dispose of property as they will is the reason for the difference.

"I am actually quite happy that the debate is still strong... "the idealists" vs. "the realists". I think there needs to be that tug and pull. Heaven help us when the balance becomes undone."

Not me. I'd be quite happy to ship all the idealists to their own island where they can live out their fantasies at their own collective expense. Don't get me wrong - there's nothing wrong with being idealistically inclined but realistically disciplined. That's the perfect balance, in my view. But someone who is idealistic at the expense of heeding reality is nothing more than a liability to his or her attainment of life's enjoyable possibilities. And if that person happens to be in a position of power, he or she is then a liability to all who are under his or her yoke. Nope, get rid of them. All of them.

" ps. As per anonymous's comment: if I had a choice about living in Ayn Rand's "objectivist" universe...I'd rather eat dog shit."

Alice, the irony here is that you're *already* living in Rand's objectivist universe. Save the shit for your strange friend's doorstep.

8/22/2005 12:08:00 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The modern liberal embraces this wholeheartedly. They refuse to deal in fact and reality.

The more extreme liberals, yes. The more extrem conservatives are Fundamentalist Religious. The Flat Earth Society is still running. (Or are American liberals much more extreme than others).

Here are the seeds of multiculturalism. If any way of approaching the world is as good as any other, then no culture is better than any other. Hence, the PCification of society.

Alternatively, if every society has something to teach every other society (an entirely different proposition from yours) and we do not want to crush dissent, multiculturalism within the confines considered acceptable by civilised society is probably the best way of accomplishing this.

Again, this is the liberal's battlecry against exploitative capitalism, gender socialization, racism, blah, blah, blah.

You missed out slavery, Jim Crow, Suttee, the Holocaust, true Wage Slavery etc.

Some liberals go far too far, but that is because by and large liberals have removed the large atrocities from the world.

And although I usually agree with liberal positions, postmodernism is certainly not my battlecry. "Equality of opportunity and maximising freedom" comes closer.

Liberals think in terms of groups and abhor those who put the needs and desires of individuals ahead of them.

The stereotypical Liberal will choose maximum "freedom from" - freedom from hunger, freedom from exploitation, freedom from having your feelings hurt etc. The stereotypical Conservative will choose maximum "freedom to" - freedom to grow, freedom to rise, freedom to bully and exploit your fellow man. My position is that all the freedom from in the world will not help you if you are locked up in a small box cocooned in cotton wool, and all the freedom to in the world will not help you if you are dying of starvation or thirst- a balance must be struck.

In terms of politics and economics, the postmodernist is a socialist, which is to say dumbass.

As is pretty much every other hardline follower of every single economic theory yet thought up. I would question whether socialists are worse than those who follow the Trickle Down Effect (sorry, that should read Supply Side Economics) and would question anyone who claims that levels of socialism can't work - Japan, China and much of the US industrialised through socialism, and the "socialist" National Health Service is far far more efficient than the US health system. (Yes, much of it is worse - but per capita less is spent by the National Health Service than by the US Government even before you throw in private healthcare).

As for the economy getting more socialist, do you really want a return to wage-slavery and the Company Store? (Let alone true slavery). Yes, the Unions reached too far, partiularly in Britain in the late 1970s and early 1980s - but that was both corrected and was trivial compared to the severe abuses perpetrated by the other side.

For that matter, probably the most effective large group of 19th Centuray Capitalists were the Religious Society of Friends (the Quakers) - Liberal almost to a man and founders of two of the four major British highstreet banks (Barclays and Lloyds) and many, many successful companies - and strongly involved in campaigns such as the Anti-Slavery League, the Undergroudnd Railroad, and much emancipation.

You see, as long as realists are in power, they will bash anti-realists over the head with it

Who are you calling realists? The current American Government? And as far as I can see (possibly the situation is different in America), your rant had very little to do with the majority of liberals.

8/22/2005 07:37:00 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm no expert, but to me the true basis of what should be liberal -- or the life of a free mind -- is Greek stoic philosophy and its constant consideration and examination of the choices we make in life."

I found that quote interesting because the textbook for the course I'm taking in Philosophy ("After Virtue" by Alasdair MacIntyre) comments that whenever the formerly consistent worldview & philosophy falls apart, Stoicism is what people default to.

Pat

8/25/2005 02:10:00 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

EC writes: “the postmodernist ... believes in social subjectivism, which is to say it's all good. Whatever and however you want to come by knowledge is just fine, since you're creating reality in your head anyway. Here are the seeds of multiculturalism. If any way of approaching the world is as good as any other, then no culture is better than any other. Hence, the PCification of society.”

Such comments bring to mind the increasing tendency for conservatives to characterize the holder of a liberal viewpoint as a “social subjectivist” or “relativist.” For example, the new pope has recently declared the Western world to be afflicted by “relativism.”

Yet those who subscribe to progressive or liberal views are by no means social subjectivists or relativists. They simply disagree with conservatives about what is right and wrong. Often it is a matter of short-term versus long-term priorities, and what constitutes “realistic” human behavior.

For example, should we open up our national parks to off-road vehicles, snowmobiles, and Jet Skis? Liberals who answer “no” are hardly being subjectivist with regard to the handful of people who want to pursue such activities (but who might cause a lot of irreparable damage). They think it’s in their own best interest to preserve the parks for themselves, their kids, and future generations.

A new Pew Forum poll says that a majority of Americans favor the teaching of creationism alongside evolution in science classes. I doubt many of EC’s so-called “postmodernist” liberals endorse that view.

EC seems to characterize the “PCification of society” as a process of “being nice” just for the sake of being nice. Yet hasn’t the PCificiation of society ultimately arisen from people whose needs and wants aren’t met by traditional society (e.g., left-handers facing classroom desks designed for right-handed people). One might argue that the PCification of society is an effort to curb our caveman instincts towards short-term self-interest, in-group prejudice and herd mentality. Isn’t a tolerant, open society more likely to be richer in the long run?

As for liberals not being reality-based, it is not hard to come up with counterexamples. For example, should teachers be allowed to talk about condom usage with teachers? It is those who say “no” -- that is, the social conservatives who believe in abstinence alone -- who are not reality-based -- not the liberals in this case.

Jeff R.

8/31/2005 02:22:00 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ola from here or there. i might suggest to those who have/take/make issue with the concept of zero to visit the works of Ekhart Tolle or the Buddha. there are also two domains you might visit: eccentrate.com and assumenoposition.com. while not claiming to be anything new or different, these folks really help me think about the concepts espoused here at EC. peace.

9/02/2005 06:05:00 PM

 
Blogger Chris Wilson said...

"Alternatively, if every society has something to teach every other society (an entirely different proposition from yours) and we do not want to crush dissent, multiculturalism within the confines considered acceptable by civilised society is probably the best way of accomplishing this."

Your definition is not my definition. Multiculturalism, to you, seems to be simply being tolerant of other cultures. Nothing wrong with that. Multiculturalism, to me, is the vilification of making comparative assessments of cultures on specific grounds in the context of specific ideals. My version is diametrically opposed to truth. Therefore, it sucks.

"Some liberals go far too far, but that is because by and large liberals have removed the large atrocities from the world."

Exactly. They are cursed by having activist mentalities without realistic direction. The condition being understandable doesn't make it immune from criticism.

"My position is that all the freedom from in the world will not help you if you are locked up in a small box cocooned in cotton wool, and all the freedom to in the world will not help you if you are dying of starvation or thirst- a balance must be struck."

That's nice. And meaningless. The fact is that freedom to is something that can be afforded to anyone, which means it is tenable in society. Freedom from, however, requires that the private property of some individuals be taken and redistributed to others. This is untenable because, if private property rights cannot be protected, then nothing can.

"I would question whether socialists are worse than those who follow the Trickle Down Effect (sorry, that should read Supply Side Economics) and would question anyone who claims that levels of socialism can't work - Japan, China and much of the US industrialised through socialism..."

I know a thing or two about supply side economics, enough to know that, in the context of a mostly free market, it works better than anything else. The US absolutely *did not* industrialize because of socialism. That's absurd.

"...and the "socialist" National Health Service is far far more efficient than the US health system. (Yes, much of it is worse - but per capita less is spent by the National Health Service than by the US Government even before you throw in private healthcare)."

Let's see - the cost of healthcare is directly proportional to the number of patients who go through the system and to the amount spent on each patient. So, all it would take for a socialized medicine system to outperform the US would be to push less patients through the system. And guess what? That's exactly how it works. Excellent system. Keep the numbers down. Make everyone wait forever to get any medical help at all. Damn - why didn't we think of that. I take it all back - socialism is awesome.

"For that matter, probably the most effective large group of 19th Centuray Capitalists were the Religious Society of Friends (the Quakers) - Liberal almost to a man and founders of two of the four major British highstreet banks (Barclays and Lloyds) and many, many successful companies - and strongly involved in campaigns such as the Anti-Slavery League, the Undergroudnd Railroad, and much emancipation."

19th century capitalists don't fit into my definition of a modern liberal. The situation may be different in your country, but on this blog we try to comprehend the post before we post comments.

"But what I find objectionable about objectivism(aren't I clever?) and Marxism is that both seem to rely on one basic cynical tenet: that human beings are greedy by nature."

Interesting word, greedy. I think it's pretty hard to define. It has a larger (and more negative) connotation than simply self-interest. It seems to be self-interest *at the expense of others*. But I never got the impression that Rand used it that way. Her sentiment was just an extension of Adam Smith's invisible hand concept - by taking care of ourselves, we indirectly take care of one another.

"Mulit-culturalism, self-interest, diversity -- these are all good things when used as reference points for the examination of one's life and one's choices. The problem today in the post-modern world is that we're seemingly expected to simply surrender to multi-culturalism or greed without examining whether or not they are moral."

Self-interest, in my view, is not a tool to sit alongside multiculturalism in our perspective toolbox. It is the reality of our species, at least generally speaking. It is the setting upon which we act. This is a really important distinction. The essence of objectivism is not a push to embrace greed so much as it is a push to accept that it's how our species does business and that it is possible to thrive as a group without rejecting it. Multiculturalism, however, is a sham concept. Tolerance of cultures is to be desired, but it's different than saying all cultures are equal. That statement in itself is nonsensical. But beyond that, on most any measure, cultures can be ranked in terms of which are better and which are worse. There's no getting around that.

"We did/do know these things but the question remains "How does we know?" "

The core of evolutionary psych is that many social behaviors are genetic in origin. If that's true, then it isn't hard to imagine how our neurons could be prearranged to deliver positive physiological responses when we do "the right thing" and negative physiological responses when we do "the wrong thing." We can't let our dearth in detailed understanding of the connection between genes and behavior cause us to abandon the idea that they are connected and that the connection may account for quite a lot in our daily lives.

"What makes us think that we could possibly be the "end game"?"

Nobody here thinks that. Do they?

"The memes, the information replicated brain to brain directly are in the driving seat as far as ongoing (human) evolution are concerned."

Agreed. We're stuck our genome, it would seem.

"I found that quote interesting because the textbook for the course I'm taking in Philosophy ("After Virtue" by Alasdair MacIntyre) comments that whenever the formerly consistent worldview & philosophy falls apart, Stoicism is what people default to."

That's because stoicism is about accepting reality and dealing with it. Reality is the constant you can always go back to when you're sick of spinning your wheels trying to reinvent your environment to your satisfaction.

Personally, I like a lot of stoicism, but it seems too passive to me. I'm for finding the right balance between accepting reality and finding ways to change it. My take is a modified version of the Serenity Prayer.

"I aspire to have the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference."

"Yet those who subscribe to progressive or liberal views are by no means social subjectivists or relativists. They simply disagree with conservatives about what is right and wrong. Often it is a matter of short-term versus long-term priorities, and what constitutes “realistic” human behavior."

It's one thing to disagree with what is right and wrong. It's quite another to completely distort the facts in order to further an opposing viewpoint. This is what postmodernists are all about. Those are the people I'm writing about.

"EC seems to characterize the “PCification of society” as a process of “being nice” just for the sake of being nice. Yet hasn’t the PCificiation of society ultimately arisen from people whose needs and wants aren’t met by traditional society (e.g., left-handers facing classroom desks designed for right-handed people). One might argue that the PCification of society is an effort to curb our caveman instincts towards short-term self-interest, in-group prejudice and herd mentality. Isn’t a tolerant, open society more likely to be richer in the long run?"

The roots of the PC push are innocuous, I agree. There's no doubt that some people, people with disabilities, for example, have been helped immensely by it. However, the PC movement now is less about affording minority groups opportunities others have. It is about controlling speech so that no one is offended. It is about avoiding any policies that target specific individuals who fit into minority groups (unless, of course, the policies are aimed at giving them something). This is all contrary to the truth, which is why it causes more problems than it solves.

"As for liberals not being reality-based, it is not hard to come up with counterexamples. For example, should teachers be allowed to talk about condom usage with teachers? It is those who say “no” -- that is, the social conservatives who believe in abstinence alone -- who are not reality-based -- not the liberals in this case."

Fair enough. Religion is the Achilles Heel in the realism of the conservatives in this country. To be clear, I just want people to be realists, and it's very easy to use liberals as prime examples of what not to do. Conservatives, though less often, certainly have their share of fantasies.

"I'm glad you mentioned virtue because I have some views on that as well, and in line with what I stated before. That is, my impression of the conceopt of virtue (or virtues) is not that they are either on one side or the other of what's good, but that they are a conceptual tool for finding what the truth might be in any moral question."

Yes, virtues are just our personal ranges of acceptability. We assess moral dilemmas by determining which options fit best into our ranges. But this says nothing about universal truth. In fact, there really can't be a such as thing as a moral universal truth. This is where relativity bears its teeth. Universal truth is the physical reality. All else works off our mental model of that reality. See that? I brought Kant back into this.

9/08/2005 01:53:00 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reducing liberals to postmodernist wackjobs is about as accurate as calling all conservatives Jesus freaks. The fact that you did such a thorough job of clothing the strawman doesn't make it any less flimsy.

9/16/2005 09:53:00 AM

 
Blogger Chris Wilson said...

I guess I'm going to have to expend the energy to explain how I depart from Ayn Rand's thinking...some day when I have time. However, for now, I'm not offended that someone would think of me as a Randian. The fact is that I do agree very much with a great deal of her perspective. BUT...and this is extremely important...*it is possible to agree with some aspects of one's philosophy without being a blind faith follower of said philosophy*. This is known in some circles as precision thinking, and it's something I work hard to maintain.

So to J and Zetetic, I would ask what I seem to have to ask constantly these days - why don't you try reading with a little precision?

I made it perfectly clear that I *disagree* (that's dis...a...gree, as in, does not agree with) with Hick's implied assumption that liberals are intellectual postmodernists. So, your pithy little statement about my well-clothed strawman (I'll take the compliment) is erroneous.

And you, J, how about something constructive like a counterargument to the notion that much of the postmodernist thinking comes from Kant's position vis a vis reality and the human mind? That's counterargument, as in an argument that contradicts the argument put forth. It's comical to me how people who post childish comments about ideas and who call names (Randroids, for example) usually exemplify exactly what they're calling someone else. Maybe J is an ex-Randroid who is still hating himself (or herself, who can tell these days?)for drinking too much A is A Kool-Aid.

9/19/2005 03:08:00 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you find that you're constantly having to clarify, it may be worth questioning whether it is in fact the readers who lack precision. That said, I apologize for any misunderstanding on my part.

9/22/2005 03:28:00 PM

 
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